Grant tries his best to think back over the auction and its immediate aftermath, and... has to admit his memory of it is kind of fuzzy. Which is no surprise, he guesses.]
Shit
Okay, to be clear I am not doubting a single thing you're saying but I've got to ask - what DID get said? I feel like I remember someone saying something about threats but I'll admit I wasn't super processing a lot of what was said so I couldn't deny it at the time, sorry
[It takes a while for Steven's reply to come, the reasons which will be pretty obvious once Grant reads it.]
Yeah. You were, well, clearly disassociating. I'm not surprised your memories of what happened are fuzzy.
Normally this is when I'd link the staryutube video, but I don't want to trigger you again. So. It went like this:
LANCE: [makes a bullshit orgy comment] YOU: [stunned denial of orgy] THACE: "That joke is in very poor taste--" [notices you shutting down, snarls reflexively] "Let me be very clear. I would never expect anything sexual or romantic in a situation where money is involved, even in such a way as this where everyone agreed to be 'auctioned.' The implied power imbalance is vile." ME: [menacingly to Lance] "If you truly believe that Shiro will be forcibly screwed by the winner, one wonders why *you've* been betting so fiercely. You do realize you could just proposition him, rather than dubiously attempt to purchase his sexual favors from a charity auction—or are you worried you'll be turned down?" SHIRO: [completely done with everything] “100,000 and we end this right now. I’ll pay it myself and we can all stop threatening Lance.” THACE: [wincing] "My apologies, Shiro. My only intent was to offer a quiet evening among friends, which is still on offer, auction or not, if you want it." [glares at Lance] "You should apologize as well. To Shiro especially." JASKIER: "*LANCE*! Bloody hell." SHIRO: [says something privately to Jaskier, then to everyone else,] “Lance doesn’t bother me at this point. I think I’m done though. For real.” ME: [wincing] "I'm sorry, Shiro. I suppose I wanted Lance to see how it felt to have someone publicly accuse him of having the worst, most sordid motives for his actions... and I didn't think of how much it would hurt you. I understand if you don't want to talk with or see any of us for a while, though." LANCE: "Why's everybody getting mad at me?! You're the ones who kept adding people! This thing is for a date date, not monopoly. Don't get salty because I'm taking trying to get someone to drag Shiro out of his closet bedroom for once in the last two years seriously. And I'm a married man. Shiro couldn't have me even if he wanted. No offense, bro, but Pidge, man." ME: [rolling my eyes] "Oh please. As if I'd ever propose we play something so plebeian. It would have been Settlers of the Catan Region at the very least. That said, I do have some advice for you, Lance. You should know that implying that men like the four of us are only driven by sexual motives is incredibly offensive for any number of reason--and whether or not you meant it that way, that's how it came off as. *Think* before you say these things." THACE: [taking deep breaths] "Firstly, had you considered whether or not Shiro wanted a romantic date? He had no objections to my offer of a quiet dinner and games. Perhaps that's why he allowed himself to be auctioned, rather than romance." [momentary pause] "Which is not required to get out among people in the first place, for one. I can't claim to know his mind, but perhaps this was his attempt at getting out on his own. I regret that it ended the way it did, but I don't regret scolding you about your words."
At which point Jaskier moved onto the next date. Some other things were said privately to people, I think, but that's what ended up on the video.
And yeah, something else sure as fucking happened. Lance's *wife* messaged me and threatened to castrate me if I threaten her husband again. The ensuing discussion has not gone well. Give me a sec and I'll cap it for you.
[He does, up to the part where he tells Pidge that if he'd threatened Lance, she would know.]
I, ah, may have invoked you shutting down as a reason I said what I did. Which is more or less true. If you hadn't, I'd have skipped the public humiliation and gone straight to the scolding, but at that moment, I was trying to focus people's attention on myself.
That said, I probably shouldn't have told Lance's wife about your disassociating without asking you first and I'm sorry about that.
Grant's reply takes a while, as well, which probably isn't too much of a surprise, as he takes it all in, processes both what he'd heard but not quite retained, and the information that's truly new to him. He... might end up getting up and pacing around a bit in the process, reading the transcript and screencaps a bit at a time.
When he sits down to respond, it's with some careful thought and a distinct shift in mindset. This had been a messy, unpleasant interaction that he just hoped everyone could move on from. Now it's... it's something else. Something that might involve more work to resolve than he had thought.]
Okay Yeah, I think i remember a bit more of that, now that I've read over it, thank you.
And I don't mind you telling her - I mean, it was probably pretty obvious to anyone who knew what to look for, anyway. That said, I do want you to know that while I appreciate your intent to keep eyes off me at the auction, there's no need to do anything like that for my sake again in the future.
[He hesitates a bit, thinking over how to lead into this next part, before he continues.]
I know you may have just messaged me to vent, and I'll gladly listen if you've got more to say and talk about what's come up already if you don't. But I also want to message Shiro. This has gotten way too far out of hand, and while I do feel bad since he doesn't need this stress, it's already happening and I think going through him might be our best bet for any kind of resolution. Is it okay if I tell him what you've told me here?
Do you mean share the screenshots? I'm. Not sure about that part. Just because it doesn't show either of us in a very good light and I know Pidge is an important person to him (She's a hypocritical little bitch in my opinion, but I'm not Shiro and I'm sure she's kinder to people who don't scold her husband.)
But if you want to tell him that I'm frustrated because it feels like I'm not allowed to defend myself and my people, however poorly, from lurid insinuations—and that it's really damn annoying how it feels like the only acceptable response for me would have been to smile and eat shit... that you can probably tell him. You're the one person in this that everyone agrees is innocent. Maybe it'll sound better coming from you.
[At least he's replying before he picked that second fight with Lance, for better or worse.]
I absolutely understand. Should I tell him she messaged you at all or just keep it to the basic fact that it's seeming like Lance's BS is being overshadowed by the pressure being put on you for reacting?
Speaking of which, yeah, I guess that's convenient for the sake of communication, but... god, it's frustrating. Which I'm sure you can imagine. I don't like being left feeling like it's LUCKY that I don't know how to defend myself anymore.
Not sure. I suppose you could tell him that she did, as long as you don't tell him what she said beyond that she threatened me for threatening him and that I'm frustrated that I'm getting yelled at for threats I never made instead of nasty comments I did. Well. Frustrated is one word for it.
Ugh, I don't want to be *that guy*, but it's— it's like how back home you learn to keep your head down, right? Because you know that there are people who can get away with murder or at least get off with minimal penalties as long as they claim they felt threatened. And they'll interpret 'threat' out of just about *anything*.
I don't think it's like that *here* mind you, nor that *any* of our fellow otherworlders are the kind of people who would, at least not at this point in their lives, but being told repeatedly that I was threatening people when I didn't actually make any threats, even if I put my scary asshole face on... It puts me on edge, Grant. It really does.
Ah, not that you necessarily have to give that whole explanation to Shiro, mind you. He's from the future. Presumably it's better. And I wouldn't want him or Pidge to think I was implying that they're those kinds of people. I suppose I just wanted to explain that to *you* so you could tell me if I was being reasonable or not.
(But really, Grant, it's so *very* frustrating. I was starting to *relax* here. I was starting to think I could be myself as I am now, sharp edges and all, and not have to worry about being palatable to people so much. Hah hah.)
Honestly, *I'm* pretty pissed off for your sake. Your disassociation was *not* a healthy reaction and it burns that you're being treated as the 'good' victim because of it. I mean, I'm not *surprised* you are, even if I wish I could be, but *still*.
Edited (Pressed enter too soon) 2021-08-03 00:33 (UTC)
Got it - if possible I'll stick to just letting him know there have been problems continuing to pop up.
Oh, I absolutely get you. To this day, I get nervous if I feel like there's a CHANCE someone might TRY to provoke me; you just get so wired to be ready for those situations to get really messy, and it's just... exhausting. And you're totally right, even though I doubt nobody here thinks that way, it just... sucks so much to hear. It almost makes it worse in some ways, at least for me - it ends up feeling inescapable, and I'm not even the one on the receiving end of that treatment.
Yeah, that can just be between us - though. I'm halfway tempted to explain my own situation to Shiro here if necessary? Knowing him I feel like there's a good chance it won't BE necessary, but... I don't know, part of me just really wants him to fully understand where I'm coming from here, why this all hits so hard.
[It might be the gay part.]
Christ, right - I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this now.
Ugh, yeah; I hate having that crap VALIDATED, you know? The last thing I need is more ammo for the worst parts of my psyche to use to tell me I need to keep reacting that way to stress. I'm sure you can imagine, this kind of reaction is why I ended up wiring myself to respond passively to begin with, and I really hate it sometimes.
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no subject
Grant tries his best to think back over the auction and its immediate aftermath, and... has to admit his memory of it is kind of fuzzy. Which is no surprise, he guesses.]
Shit
Okay, to be clear I am not doubting a single thing you're saying but I've got to ask - what DID get said? I feel like I remember someone saying something about threats but I'll admit I wasn't super processing a lot of what was said so I couldn't deny it at the time, sorry
Related, I take it something else happened?
no subject
Yeah. You were, well, clearly disassociating. I'm not surprised your memories of what happened are fuzzy.
Normally this is when I'd link the staryutube video, but I don't want to trigger you again. So. It went like this:
LANCE: [makes a bullshit orgy comment]
YOU: [stunned denial of orgy]
THACE: "That joke is in very poor taste--" [notices you shutting down, snarls reflexively] "Let me be very clear. I would never expect anything sexual or romantic in a situation where money is involved, even in such a way as this where everyone agreed to be 'auctioned.' The implied power imbalance is vile."
ME: [menacingly to Lance] "If you truly believe that Shiro will be forcibly screwed by the winner, one wonders why *you've* been betting so fiercely. You do realize you could just proposition him, rather than dubiously attempt to purchase his sexual favors from a charity auction—or are you worried you'll be turned down?"
SHIRO: [completely done with everything] “100,000 and we end this right now. I’ll pay it myself and we can all stop threatening Lance.”
THACE: [wincing] "My apologies, Shiro. My only intent was to offer a quiet evening among friends, which is still on offer, auction or not, if you want it." [glares at Lance] "You should apologize as well. To Shiro especially."
JASKIER: "*LANCE*! Bloody hell."
SHIRO: [says something privately to Jaskier, then to everyone else,] “Lance doesn’t bother me at this point. I think I’m done though. For real.”
ME: [wincing] "I'm sorry, Shiro. I suppose I wanted Lance to see how it felt to have someone publicly accuse him of having the worst, most sordid motives for his actions... and I didn't think of how much it would hurt you. I understand if you don't want to talk with or see any of us for a while, though."
LANCE: "Why's everybody getting mad at me?! You're the ones who kept adding people! This thing is for a date date, not monopoly. Don't get salty because I'm taking trying to get someone to drag Shiro out of his closet bedroom for once in the last two years seriously. And I'm a married man. Shiro couldn't have me even if he wanted. No offense, bro, but Pidge, man."
ME: [rolling my eyes] "Oh please. As if I'd ever propose we play something so plebeian. It would have been Settlers of the Catan Region at the very least. That said, I do have some advice for you, Lance. You should know that implying that men like the four of us are only driven by sexual motives is incredibly offensive for any number of reason--and whether or not you meant it that way, that's how it came off as. *Think* before you say these things."
THACE: [taking deep breaths] "Firstly, had you considered whether or not Shiro wanted a romantic date? He had no objections to my offer of a quiet dinner and games. Perhaps that's why he allowed himself to be auctioned, rather than romance." [momentary pause] "Which is not required to get out among people in the first place, for one. I can't claim to know his mind, but perhaps this was his attempt at getting out on his own. I regret that it ended the way it did, but I don't regret scolding you about your words."
At which point Jaskier moved onto the next date. Some other things were said privately to people, I think, but that's what ended up on the video.
And yeah, something else sure as fucking happened. Lance's *wife* messaged me and threatened to castrate me if I threaten her husband again. The ensuing discussion has not gone well. Give me a sec and I'll cap it for you.
[He does, up to the part where he tells Pidge that if he'd threatened Lance, she would know.]
I, ah, may have invoked you shutting down as a reason I said what I did. Which is more or less true. If you hadn't, I'd have skipped the public humiliation and gone straight to the scolding, but at that moment, I was trying to focus people's attention on myself.
That said, I probably shouldn't have told Lance's wife about your disassociating without asking you first and I'm sorry about that.
no subject
Grant's reply takes a while, as well, which probably isn't too much of a surprise, as he takes it all in, processes both what he'd heard but not quite retained, and the information that's truly new to him. He... might end up getting up and pacing around a bit in the process, reading the transcript and screencaps a bit at a time.
When he sits down to respond, it's with some careful thought and a distinct shift in mindset. This had been a messy, unpleasant interaction that he just hoped everyone could move on from. Now it's... it's something else. Something that might involve more work to resolve than he had thought.]
Okay
Yeah, I think i remember a bit more of that, now that I've read over it, thank you.
And I don't mind you telling her - I mean, it was probably pretty obvious to anyone who knew what to look for, anyway. That said, I do want you to know that while I appreciate your intent to keep eyes off me at the auction, there's no need to do anything like that for my sake again in the future.
[He hesitates a bit, thinking over how to lead into this next part, before he continues.]
I know you may have just messaged me to vent, and I'll gladly listen if you've got more to say and talk about what's come up already if you don't. But I also want to message Shiro. This has gotten way too far out of hand, and while I do feel bad since he doesn't need this stress, it's already happening and I think going through him might be our best bet for any kind of resolution. Is it okay if I tell him what you've told me here?
no subject
But if you want to tell him that I'm frustrated because it feels like I'm not allowed to defend myself and my people, however poorly, from lurid insinuations—and that it's really damn annoying how it feels like the only acceptable response for me would have been to smile and eat shit... that you can probably tell him. You're the one person in this that everyone agrees is innocent. Maybe it'll sound better coming from you.
[At least he's replying before he picked that second fight with Lance, for better or worse.]
no subject
Speaking of which, yeah, I guess that's convenient for the sake of communication, but... god, it's frustrating. Which I'm sure you can imagine. I don't like being left feeling like it's LUCKY that I don't know how to defend myself anymore.
no subject
Ugh, I don't want to be *that guy*, but it's— it's like how back home you learn to keep your head down, right? Because you know that there are people who can get away with murder or at least get off with minimal penalties as long as they claim they felt threatened. And they'll interpret 'threat' out of just about *anything*.
I don't think it's like that *here* mind you, nor that *any* of our fellow otherworlders are the kind of people who would, at least not at this point in their lives, but being told repeatedly that I was threatening people when I didn't actually make any threats, even if I put my scary asshole face on... It puts me on edge, Grant. It really does.
Ah, not that you necessarily have to give that whole explanation to Shiro, mind you. He's from the future. Presumably it's better. And I wouldn't want him or Pidge to think I was implying that they're those kinds of people. I suppose I just wanted to explain that to *you* so you could tell me if I was being reasonable or not.
(But really, Grant, it's so *very* frustrating. I was starting to *relax* here. I was starting to think I could be myself as I am now, sharp edges and all, and not have to worry about being palatable to people so much. Hah hah.)
Honestly, *I'm* pretty pissed off for your sake. Your disassociation was *not* a healthy reaction and it burns that you're being treated as the 'good' victim because of it. I mean, I'm not *surprised* you are, even if I wish I could be, but *still*.
no subject
Oh, I absolutely get you. To this day, I get nervous if I feel like there's a CHANCE someone might TRY to provoke me; you just get so wired to be ready for those situations to get really messy, and it's just... exhausting. And you're totally right, even though I doubt nobody here thinks that way, it just... sucks so much to hear. It almost makes it worse in some ways, at least for me - it ends up feeling inescapable, and I'm not even the one on the receiving end of that treatment.
Yeah, that can just be between us - though. I'm halfway tempted to explain my own situation to Shiro here if necessary? Knowing him I feel like there's a good chance it won't BE necessary, but... I don't know, part of me just really wants him to fully understand where I'm coming from here, why this all hits so hard.
[It might be the gay part.]
Christ, right - I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this now.
Ugh, yeah; I hate having that crap VALIDATED, you know? The last thing I need is more ammo for the worst parts of my psyche to use to tell me I need to keep reacting that way to stress. I'm sure you can imagine, this kind of reaction is why I ended up wiring myself to respond passively to begin with, and I really hate it sometimes.